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	<title>Comments on: Interoffice Memo</title>
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	<link>http://roughstonerolling.com/blog/2009/01/05/interoffice-memo/</link>
	<description>Converting Oneself One Day at a Time - A Mormon Blog</description>
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		<title>By: frankg</title>
		<link>http://roughstonerolling.com/blog/2009/01/05/interoffice-memo/comment-page-1/#comment-22528</link>
		<dc:creator>frankg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 01:12:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://roughstonerolling.com/blog/2009/01/05/interoffice-memo/#comment-22528</guid>
		<description>Andy E. Wold:

It&#039;s called &quot;minimum wage&quot; for a reason.
Its expected that one tries to better themselves, promote themselves, gain experience and skill, make themselves more valuable to employers, and create opportunities, or who knows-start a business-not stay at &quot;minimum wage&quot; forever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andy E. Wold:</p>
<p>It&#8217;s called &#8220;minimum wage&#8221; for a reason.<br />
Its expected that one tries to better themselves, promote themselves, gain experience and skill, make themselves more valuable to employers, and create opportunities, or who knows-start a business-not stay at &#8220;minimum wage&#8221; forever.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy E. Wold</title>
		<link>http://roughstonerolling.com/blog/2009/01/05/interoffice-memo/comment-page-1/#comment-8620</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy E. Wold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 05:26:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://roughstonerolling.com/blog/2009/01/05/interoffice-memo/#comment-8620</guid>
		<description>A flat tax does unfairly affect the poor.

Try to imagine eking out a living on a minimum wage.  Now try imagining how difficult it would be to merely survive when you are giving up the same percentage of your insufficient paycheck as the millionaire living next door.

A millionaire paying $100,000 in taxes still has $900,000 to buy the &quot;necessities&quot; of life.

A poor man earning $15,000 per year paying $1,500  in taxes  (assuming $1,376 in overtime, above his $6.55 per hour wage.)  He will be looking for a second job just to survive, and a third job to give his children a decent education.

Now a flat tax will not allow the government to allow this man to keep his $4,500 from the three jobs he needs to work in order to survive and provide for his family.

And yes, the $4,500 does seem like a lot, until you consider that it is just a simple 0.45% additional tax that the millionaire could easily do without.  But, being a flat-tax, he would never have to pay 10.45% in taxes.

A flat tax simply allows for those who have more to keep more and for those who have not to keep less.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A flat tax does unfairly affect the poor.</p>
<p>Try to imagine eking out a living on a minimum wage.  Now try imagining how difficult it would be to merely survive when you are giving up the same percentage of your insufficient paycheck as the millionaire living next door.</p>
<p>A millionaire paying $100,000 in taxes still has $900,000 to buy the &#8220;necessities&#8221; of life.</p>
<p>A poor man earning $15,000 per year paying $1,500  in taxes  (assuming $1,376 in overtime, above his $6.55 per hour wage.)  He will be looking for a second job just to survive, and a third job to give his children a decent education.</p>
<p>Now a flat tax will not allow the government to allow this man to keep his $4,500 from the three jobs he needs to work in order to survive and provide for his family.</p>
<p>And yes, the $4,500 does seem like a lot, until you consider that it is just a simple 0.45% additional tax that the millionaire could easily do without.  But, being a flat-tax, he would never have to pay 10.45% in taxes.</p>
<p>A flat tax simply allows for those who have more to keep more and for those who have not to keep less.</p>
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		<title>By: Karron</title>
		<link>http://roughstonerolling.com/blog/2009/01/05/interoffice-memo/comment-page-1/#comment-8556</link>
		<dc:creator>Karron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 02:51:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://roughstonerolling.com/blog/2009/01/05/interoffice-memo/#comment-8556</guid>
		<description>A flat tax means that you only pay the same percentage as the next person.  The more you make, the more you pay.  How does that benefit the rich over the poor?  

Even a non math person like me gets that.  It&#039;s like tithing, ten percent for everyone, the more you make the more you give. 

Geesh!  some people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A flat tax means that you only pay the same percentage as the next person.  The more you make, the more you pay.  How does that benefit the rich over the poor?  </p>
<p>Even a non math person like me gets that.  It&#8217;s like tithing, ten percent for everyone, the more you make the more you give. </p>
<p>Geesh!  some people.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy E. Wold</title>
		<link>http://roughstonerolling.com/blog/2009/01/05/interoffice-memo/comment-page-1/#comment-8204</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy E. Wold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 00:16:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://roughstonerolling.com/blog/2009/01/05/interoffice-memo/#comment-8204</guid>
		<description>Karron,

Please do not assume that I am an &quot;American armchair&quot; person.  I do have a well-used passport, I have been to several continents, I have lived in a variety of countries.

Comparing the 426 square miles of Hong Kong S.A.R. to the vastness of the United States, is like comparing your crate of oranges to my apple orchards.  You could nearly fit two Hong Kong S.A.R.&#039;s in the small county that I call home.  My daily commute to work is longer than the distance across it.

I apologize for overstating the minimal amount of government spending that Hong Kong requires, but in comparison to the United States, it is very minuscule.

Would a flat rate tax be fair?  No.  Only the rich would benefit from it.

How could it be made fair?  If every tax payer received free food, lodging, transportation, medical and education -- then a flat tax would make sense.  Until then, it is the rich stealing from the poor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Karron,</p>
<p>Please do not assume that I am an &#8220;American armchair&#8221; person.  I do have a well-used passport, I have been to several continents, I have lived in a variety of countries.</p>
<p>Comparing the 426 square miles of Hong Kong S.A.R. to the vastness of the United States, is like comparing your crate of oranges to my apple orchards.  You could nearly fit two Hong Kong S.A.R.&#8217;s in the small county that I call home.  My daily commute to work is longer than the distance across it.</p>
<p>I apologize for overstating the minimal amount of government spending that Hong Kong requires, but in comparison to the United States, it is very minuscule.</p>
<p>Would a flat rate tax be fair?  No.  Only the rich would benefit from it.</p>
<p>How could it be made fair?  If every tax payer received free food, lodging, transportation, medical and education &#8212; then a flat tax would make sense.  Until then, it is the rich stealing from the poor.</p>
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		<title>By: onelowerlight</title>
		<link>http://roughstonerolling.com/blog/2009/01/05/interoffice-memo/comment-page-1/#comment-8186</link>
		<dc:creator>onelowerlight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 19:47:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://roughstonerolling.com/blog/2009/01/05/interoffice-memo/#comment-8186</guid>
		<description>What gets to me is how the boss describes himself as &quot;married&quot; to his work.  The tremendous sacrifices he makes for &quot;the company&quot; (giving up dating, free time, eating ramen, living in a studio apartment) strike me as radically disproportionate.  I believe in hard work and self reliance, but this man takes it to too much of an extreme.  What he is describing here is a form of modern idolatry--&quot;the company&quot; is this man&#039;s god.  

I might be a little quick in my personal judgments of this man, but I believe that his &quot;dedication&quot; and &quot;hard work&quot; is not exemplary at all; I believe that it is unbalanced, unhealthy, and (from a gospel perspective) completely unjustified.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What gets to me is how the boss describes himself as &#8220;married&#8221; to his work.  The tremendous sacrifices he makes for &#8220;the company&#8221; (giving up dating, free time, eating ramen, living in a studio apartment) strike me as radically disproportionate.  I believe in hard work and self reliance, but this man takes it to too much of an extreme.  What he is describing here is a form of modern idolatry&#8211;&#8221;the company&#8221; is this man&#8217;s god.  </p>
<p>I might be a little quick in my personal judgments of this man, but I believe that his &#8220;dedication&#8221; and &#8220;hard work&#8221; is not exemplary at all; I believe that it is unbalanced, unhealthy, and (from a gospel perspective) completely unjustified.</p>
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		<title>By: xoxoxoxo</title>
		<link>http://roughstonerolling.com/blog/2009/01/05/interoffice-memo/comment-page-1/#comment-8184</link>
		<dc:creator>xoxoxoxo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 19:24:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://roughstonerolling.com/blog/2009/01/05/interoffice-memo/#comment-8184</guid>
		<description>Second sentence doesn&#039;t make sense. Sorry.

&quot;What is the most disturbing to me is that with absolutely zero information about how “the Boss”...&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Second sentence doesn&#8217;t make sense. Sorry.</p>
<p>&#8220;What is the most disturbing to me is that with absolutely zero information about how “the Boss”&#8230;&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: xoxoxoxo</title>
		<link>http://roughstonerolling.com/blog/2009/01/05/interoffice-memo/comment-page-1/#comment-8183</link>
		<dc:creator>xoxoxoxo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 19:22:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://roughstonerolling.com/blog/2009/01/05/interoffice-memo/#comment-8183</guid>
		<description>And one last comment on this thread.

What is the most disturbing to me is that without being given absolutely zero information about how &quot;the Boss&quot; treats his employees or spends his portion of the profits generated by this business, several people automatically judged him as a tightwad, taskmaster and miserable materialist whose only concern is money.

It doesn&#039;t indicate that he lives on a huge estate it says &quot;nice house&quot;. It doesn&#039;t indicate that he owns a private jet or collection of expensive cars, it says he drives a Mercedes. It indicates that he goes on vacations, but NOT that he vacations for weeks on end at the most exclusive resorts in the world. It indicates that he pays his employees well, NOT that he provides them with crappy insurance benefits.

The man in the memo built a business that provides a living for 14 other families outside of his own. He pays income taxes, property taxes and sales taxes-just like the rest of us do. BUT he also pays a SLEW of other taxes that most of us never will. 

How many of us would be willing to invest in something that would LOSE value over time and provide less and less income the longer we worked for it? How many of us would invest in a fund that caps out when we are 45 and loses income steadily from that point on? For this man, this &#039;company&#039;  constitutes his retirement fund-his security, and he worked harder to earn it than most of us ever have to to earn ours.

Greedy? Extremely capitalistic? Views human beings as tax liabilities? Maybe it&#039;s just me, but I think it&#039;s naive and arrogant to attempt to portray &quot;the Boss&quot;  as anything other than justifiably angry and frustrated... and heaven knows that is the one place we have all been.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And one last comment on this thread.</p>
<p>What is the most disturbing to me is that without being given absolutely zero information about how &#8220;the Boss&#8221; treats his employees or spends his portion of the profits generated by this business, several people automatically judged him as a tightwad, taskmaster and miserable materialist whose only concern is money.</p>
<p>It doesn&#8217;t indicate that he lives on a huge estate it says &#8220;nice house&#8221;. It doesn&#8217;t indicate that he owns a private jet or collection of expensive cars, it says he drives a Mercedes. It indicates that he goes on vacations, but NOT that he vacations for weeks on end at the most exclusive resorts in the world. It indicates that he pays his employees well, NOT that he provides them with crappy insurance benefits.</p>
<p>The man in the memo built a business that provides a living for 14 other families outside of his own. He pays income taxes, property taxes and sales taxes-just like the rest of us do. BUT he also pays a SLEW of other taxes that most of us never will. </p>
<p>How many of us would be willing to invest in something that would LOSE value over time and provide less and less income the longer we worked for it? How many of us would invest in a fund that caps out when we are 45 and loses income steadily from that point on? For this man, this &#8216;company&#8217;  constitutes his retirement fund-his security, and he worked harder to earn it than most of us ever have to to earn ours.</p>
<p>Greedy? Extremely capitalistic? Views human beings as tax liabilities? Maybe it&#8217;s just me, but I think it&#8217;s naive and arrogant to attempt to portray &#8220;the Boss&#8221;  as anything other than justifiably angry and frustrated&#8230; and heaven knows that is the one place we have all been.</p>
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		<title>By: xoxoxoxo</title>
		<link>http://roughstonerolling.com/blog/2009/01/05/interoffice-memo/comment-page-1/#comment-8179</link>
		<dc:creator>xoxoxoxo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 18:32:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://roughstonerolling.com/blog/2009/01/05/interoffice-memo/#comment-8179</guid>
		<description>Sam-
&quot;You have me curious: where in the U.S. do you live that doesn’t have functioning streets, sewers, water systems, and police forces? I’m genuinely curious.&quot;

Amend my comment to read: &quot;That sounds great if you live in a place where the streets, sewers, water systems etc. are maintained satisfactorily, and the police and public servants are paid well and monitored adequately to prevent corruption&quot;. 

My point is that despite the billions of tax dollars already being collected for the purpose of providing the public services you mentioned, according to the President-Elect, the need is great enough to propose massive Federal spending to correct the U.S.&#039;s  infrastructure. 

People usually have no problem paying to have things done well and maintained in an acceptable manner, they usually resent having to pay for things that aren&#039;t. 

Karron,
If a flat rate from everyone is good enough for God, it&#039;s good enough for me.  What I DO have a problem with is a small minority being required to pay 25-30% or more in taxes  (and a group I have never and will never find myself in so no bias here) and the vast majority being required to pay a smaller percentage, and even nothing at all, for the exact same access to public venues and benefits.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sam-<br />
&#8220;You have me curious: where in the U.S. do you live that doesn’t have functioning streets, sewers, water systems, and police forces? I’m genuinely curious.&#8221;</p>
<p>Amend my comment to read: &#8220;That sounds great if you live in a place where the streets, sewers, water systems etc. are maintained satisfactorily, and the police and public servants are paid well and monitored adequately to prevent corruption&#8221;. </p>
<p>My point is that despite the billions of tax dollars already being collected for the purpose of providing the public services you mentioned, according to the President-Elect, the need is great enough to propose massive Federal spending to correct the U.S.&#8217;s  infrastructure. </p>
<p>People usually have no problem paying to have things done well and maintained in an acceptable manner, they usually resent having to pay for things that aren&#8217;t. </p>
<p>Karron,<br />
If a flat rate from everyone is good enough for God, it&#8217;s good enough for me.  What I DO have a problem with is a small minority being required to pay 25-30% or more in taxes  (and a group I have never and will never find myself in so no bias here) and the vast majority being required to pay a smaller percentage, and even nothing at all, for the exact same access to public venues and benefits.</p>
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		<title>By: Karron</title>
		<link>http://roughstonerolling.com/blog/2009/01/05/interoffice-memo/comment-page-1/#comment-8128</link>
		<dc:creator>Karron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 23:15:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://roughstonerolling.com/blog/2009/01/05/interoffice-memo/#comment-8128</guid>
		<description>Have you EVER lived in Hong Kong?  Do you have a clue about how it is set up?  Hong Kong not only has the island that is the city of Hong Kong, it has numerous outlying Islands and it also includes the Kowloon side of the mainland that goes far inland that is called the SAR.  Special Administrative Region. 

As for natural preserves etc.  Get out a map, look it up, I promise there are lots of places like that in the SAR that is called Hong Kong.  

For all that it is now part of China again, Hong Kong does have to manage on its own budget.  It may not maintain a military, but it has a VERY well trained police force that can double as a militia.  It also  maintains one of the best metro systems for transportation I have ever seen, almost as good as Japan.  

AS for interstate, it has miles and miles of it to build and maintain.  On the islands, it also has miles of road and metro links to maintain.  It has good hospitals, some a lot better than others, but they maintain them too.  Obviously, YOU have never traveled far from your personal puddle. 

Before you go jumping at people who have been there done that, maybe you ought to get out of your oh so comfy armchair and see what the rest of the world is REALLY like.  Then you might have some right to start spouting off about what you don&#039;t know. 

One thing that really bugs me about Americans is that most of us sit on our collective rear ends and think a weeks visit to Mexico makes us world travelers.  Get a passport, apply for a visa and work abroad for four or five years in a socialist, communist country.  Then you might understand world politics a bit more and how they affect the US.

I still think a flat tax is the way to go.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have you EVER lived in Hong Kong?  Do you have a clue about how it is set up?  Hong Kong not only has the island that is the city of Hong Kong, it has numerous outlying Islands and it also includes the Kowloon side of the mainland that goes far inland that is called the SAR.  Special Administrative Region. </p>
<p>As for natural preserves etc.  Get out a map, look it up, I promise there are lots of places like that in the SAR that is called Hong Kong.  </p>
<p>For all that it is now part of China again, Hong Kong does have to manage on its own budget.  It may not maintain a military, but it has a VERY well trained police force that can double as a militia.  It also  maintains one of the best metro systems for transportation I have ever seen, almost as good as Japan.  </p>
<p>AS for interstate, it has miles and miles of it to build and maintain.  On the islands, it also has miles of road and metro links to maintain.  It has good hospitals, some a lot better than others, but they maintain them too.  Obviously, YOU have never traveled far from your personal puddle. </p>
<p>Before you go jumping at people who have been there done that, maybe you ought to get out of your oh so comfy armchair and see what the rest of the world is REALLY like.  Then you might have some right to start spouting off about what you don&#8217;t know. </p>
<p>One thing that really bugs me about Americans is that most of us sit on our collective rear ends and think a weeks visit to Mexico makes us world travelers.  Get a passport, apply for a visa and work abroad for four or five years in a socialist, communist country.  Then you might understand world politics a bit more and how they affect the US.</p>
<p>I still think a flat tax is the way to go.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy E. Wold</title>
		<link>http://roughstonerolling.com/blog/2009/01/05/interoffice-memo/comment-page-1/#comment-8105</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy E. Wold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 15:21:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://roughstonerolling.com/blog/2009/01/05/interoffice-memo/#comment-8105</guid>
		<description>Wait, stating that with Hong Kong&#039;s 10% flat rate &quot;they were doing just fine&quot; is ridiculous.

How many miles of intertstate highway do they have to build, maintain, and repair? None.

How much do they invest to protect their natural preserves, scenic landscapes, and open lands?  None -- they don&#039;t have any!

Do they spend HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS of dollars on an out-of-control military budget?  No, they nor anyone else but us does.

Yes, this wonderful country that we live in does require revenue to keep it running.  Could we better manage those expenditures?  Yes.

And, to Mr. Boss, a flat tax of 17% of a laid off worker&#039;s salary is still $0.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wait, stating that with Hong Kong&#8217;s 10% flat rate &#8220;they were doing just fine&#8221; is ridiculous.</p>
<p>How many miles of intertstate highway do they have to build, maintain, and repair? None.</p>
<p>How much do they invest to protect their natural preserves, scenic landscapes, and open lands?  None &#8212; they don&#8217;t have any!</p>
<p>Do they spend HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS of dollars on an out-of-control military budget?  No, they nor anyone else but us does.</p>
<p>Yes, this wonderful country that we live in does require revenue to keep it running.  Could we better manage those expenditures?  Yes.</p>
<p>And, to Mr. Boss, a flat tax of 17% of a laid off worker&#8217;s salary is still $0.</p>
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