But seriously, as far as demonstrative hatred, you can’t compare the “Yes on 8″ folks with the unruly mobs hanging on the temple gates, vandals spray painting on the chapels, the witch hunts of contributors and boycotts of businesses. How can you, in good conscience, defend such actions– or claim they pale in comparison to Prop 8 supporters? Even members of the gay community are saying it’s going too far.

Repeating the question already asked, how do you feel the gay community would respond if supporters of the proposition pulled stunts like that on the gay community?

We’re at an impasse on definition: You say Prop 8 is hatred against gays, we say it’s the protection of traditional marriage. I believe you said you are/were a member of the LDS Church? Then you are fully aware of how sacred the institution of marriage is to us– and if you understand the Gospel, you should understand why we’re defending it. If you don’t– or if your position is still that it’s an excuse to carry out an anti-gay campaign, and nothing we say is going to change that– then I guess we’re done. Like I said, impasse.

Karron, you have a point here, but I’m afraid it’s almost a universal human condition. Both sides of the Prop 8 debate have felt that the other side was “hateful” toward them. Both sides would deny such an accusation. Both sides are able to point to specific behaviors by the other side, to back up their conclusion that the other “hates” them.

Why is some people jump to the conclusion if you don’t agree with them, you hate them? So drama trauma to me.

My husband’s best friend was gay, and he was a wonderful man. He died of AIDS and it tore our family up. One of my oldest friends is a lesbian, I love her very much, even if I disagree with her lifestyle. So just because I don’t agree with certain things doesn’t mean I can’t see the value in the human being and have compassion for them.

So, accusing people who think differently of hating homosexuals just because we voted for Prop 8 is really immature and shows where the hatred really lies.

Sometimes, it is just impossible to have a conversation, or even a debate, with someone so emotional and angry about being told no. Kinda like getting a two year old to be logical when he throws a fit because he can’t have another cookie right before dinner.

Whatever, like I said, I don’t do tantrums, far too boring.

Thank you, Cheryl, for clarifying our focus. It’s so easy to feed the rage and start blasting away at everything, isn’t it? Leave all that for those who don’t get it.

http://abovethehate.com/

No offense taken. I should have been more clear that I also don’t think all gays (or mormons or any specific group of people) believe or think or feel the same way. I’ve seen LDS members and heterosexuals of every shape, size, race and age behave in the exact same manner and my initial response to them is exactly the same- same vivid picture in my head and a strong desire to smack them as well. (Note-But because I believe it is possible for human beings to feel strong desires or compulsions and not act upon them-I have never actually smacked the person. )

In other words, my feelings and reactions towards BEHAVIOR is equal towards all people, because it is entirely possible to deeply love someone and still find their actions annoying and offensive. (Mother of 6 here…I deal with it 24/7)

This means that if David were picketing and protesting with hostility against a business for no other reason than because they voted NO on 8 and contributed money towards that end, I’d have the exact same desire towards him (sorry Nick, you are not right about that) and I’d want to offer MY support for that business in the exact same way.

My MIL is also a huge supporter of gay rights, a member of PFLAG, and my SIL marched in some of the protests during the Prop 8 backlash. So, I really do see both sides. It doesn’t change my opinion, but I can still assume some compassion.

As much as I disagree with Nick (and almost everything he says), he does have a point: We can’t get so blinded by anger ourselves as to go off on tangents and angrily accuse of each other (I’m talking blog commenters) of things we shouldn’t assume. Because, dang it, I don’t want to be wrong! I said most LDS folks are reasonable and kind –and hope that we can stay that way.

If this sounds rude, my apologies. I just wanted to clear the air before more people get angry, that’s all.

P.S. Nick, leaving the CTA is akin to career/job suicide. Stopping to eat at a restaurant would cause no such devestation.

Since you live in California, a couple of questions…
Were you told to note your ward and stake on your donation slip so the “Church” could get “credit” for it? LOL

Or was it to prove for TAX/LEGAL purposes that the money came from specific people living in specific locations and NOT from “the Church” ?

I think we were told to list our ward and stake so 1) The LDS membership would be credited by the “Yes on 8″ folks for its contribution, 2) The ward and stake would be noted by SL for its participation, 3) The stake could see who in its flock participated and 4) The government could get a clean audit of where it all came from. These are my assumptions.

As for why everyone voted the way they did, I’m pretty sure it’s because that’s how they felt about marriage. Any “Yes on 8″ ads they saw only reinforced how they felt, and may have prompted them to actually get out and vote on it. What the gay community doesn’t want to accept is this IS how the majority of California feels about marriage. And in their unacceptance, they have to find bogeymen to take the blame for it.

Nick,

I can’t honestly say if I would go to the anti-LDS-donating establishment or not. A lot of it depends on what it is they’re selling. If it’s an incredibly great taco or the most convenient place with my blood type, I’d have to pause on it. But, would I protest, vandalize, run boycott campaigns? Doubtful. Remember, the Mormon Church already has a number of “anti” campaigns against them– small potatoes, admittedly– but the Church doesn’t pay them a lot of attention (I was going to refer to a rodent’s behind, but then thought that would be crude).

Enjoy yourselves, ladies. Someday, you’ll figure out that not all truth comes from 50 East North Temple Street, and there can actually be a valid viewpoint that doesn’t match your own. Until then, adieu!

Since you live in California, a couple of questions…
Were you told to note your ward and stake on your donation slip so the “Church” could get “credit” for it? LOL

Or was it to prove for TAX/LEGAL purposes that the money came from specific people living in specific locations and NOT from “the Church” ?

Also, could you explain to me how the $$ was used to FORCE or CONVINCE or COMPEL people who do NOT belong to the Church, and probably don’t even like us, to “agree with LDS Doctrine” and vote Yes??
Did we pay more than 4 million people for their votes? Did the signs posted everywhere emit some kind of narcotic drug that stole their ability to make up their own minds? Maybe Nick just thinks that all those other California residents are so stupid and naive that they let a Church THEY DO NOT BELONG to tell them how to vote.

I’ll be on the phone calling my doctor because apparently at some point I became convinced that gays are out to get ME (rather than the owner of El Coyote) which I might think was an irrational and insane suggestion if it had come from someone who isn’t as emotionally stable, rational, and fair minded as Nick.